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 Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe in God(s)?
Yes, and I am a member of an organized religion.
38%
 38% [ 9 ]
Yes, but I'm not a member of an organized religion.
4%
 4% [ 1 ]
Undecided.
25%
 25% [ 6 ]
No, but I believe in the supernatural.
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
No, I do not believe in any form of the supernatural.
33%
 33% [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 24
 

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Juani
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:26 pm

Mhhm. I love this thread.

Creationists often argue that Evolution is impossible since such a complex thing as a human begin could not be the result of random chemical compounds mixing up, it would need a "designer". The arguement then sort of kills itself. Wouldn´t a designer that designs complex things be potencially more complex itself? Then who created the designed? And we end up with an endless loop that creates a rip in the space time continum that ends with them saying: "God has existed forever, ergo, he cannot have been created"

And nobody is locking the thread. If it becomes agressive, the proper posts will be deleted.

The Bible, "word of God" is so filled with contradictions that if you had to look for every one of them your head would implode. One of the 10 commandments, "Thou Shalt not Kill". Right? Well, its broken I don´t know how many times in the Old Testament. Example: Woman insults God. God gets angry. God tells Moises to gather the town and stone the woman to death.

I will stop now.

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Pwn3dl1fe
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:34 pm

Will you not listen to me Humans come from Spiders
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:48 pm

broheim! smoke alot of weed do some shrums and you will see the light of the way.
Or the light of the cops

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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:55 pm

lol
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:43 pm

well yea i catch ur drift juani, but the same with evolution where did the bacteria come from? and keep in mind that if i am not dead in my brain and have forgotten something i think the natural law states none living matter cannot and will not become living matter?


God achieved a KILLING SPREE? xD
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:14 am

jorgen wrote:
well yea i catch ur drift juani, but the same with evolution where did the bacteria come from? and keep in mind that if i am not dead in my brain and have forgotten something i think the natural law states none living matter cannot and will not become living matter?


God achieved a KILLING SPREE? xD

"none living matter cannot and will not become living matter"

But Jorgen, we are esentially made of non living matter. The proteins that make up your cells are not alive, the cells are. Bacteria was the by product (or so it is suspected) of random chemical reactions. This compounds mixed with this other compounds and a very primitive yet spectacular sparkle of life was created. Our entire universe is composed of non living matter, if you look at it in a sub-atomic level. But this pieces of non living matter create complex and wonderful systems, systems that ARE alive.

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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:28 am

Hmmm humans are just experiment to aliens. aliens made humans and they will come soon and will kill everyone .you wonder how i know this all .Cause im one of them
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:43 am

ah well i guess, i just was so sure i heard that somewhere.


only thing i think is that god might be energy....
i dunno might sound like a silly and stupid idea -.- but if u think about it energy is like everything
for example matter
E=mc^2 Einsteins
wich proves that energy can become matter.
if god was energy couldn't he in theory do everything?



arrr i am to tired to say anything logicall to day -.-
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:42 pm

well I'm an atheist and jorgen you're complete and total misunderstanding of evolution irks me, most mutations are neutral the rest are good or bad.Evolution is an undisputed fact they have seen it in the laboratory and have found examples in the wild. Evolution is also only about after life started but the first life came about through abiogenesis (very complicated http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg you have to read the text but he does a much better at explaining than i can). You are right about energy(or matter but they are the same thing E=MC^2 and all that jazz) being unable to be created but getting into physics it can change form(matter can become energy, energy can become matter), we are made of the same stuff as everything else in the universe as Carl Sagan said "we are made of start stuff" and "if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe" and before any improbability arguments come up about the big bang, evolutionary mutations etc i only have two things to say 1.String theory(check out the fifth dimension) 2.they all sum up to if things were different then they would be different. I could go on for a big long rant but i won't i will spare you my ramblings but seriously before you make a claim like "mutations are always bad" do some research outside of your own religions claims try finding info published in scientific journals after all most scientists and evolutionists are in fact religious they just understand the difference between faith and reality and never EVER listen to someone like Kent Hovind when they say evolution is a religion it's no more a religion then gravity or germ theory(Evolution is one of the most verified theories there is). Also just another side note there is no greater scientific statement than something is a theory, things do not graduate from theory to fact ever because the a fact is different than a theory, theories explain the facts.

I said i wouldn't ramble but i did anyway >.<. I'm really not that smart I mean I only go to a community college, this stuff does make sense you just need to remain neutral and keep it separate from your religion if your religion is important to you, no one can touch faith if you believe because you want to or you feel it has to be that way but as soon as you throw your faith into the arena of science it will get trampled mercilessly as it simply can't be science. These books that your religion is based on were written long before modern science and our ability to understand this world in a naturalistic way so they can not possibly compete.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:16 pm

yea that explained alot more than our crappy books do they just say that random spliting of the genes just sudenly made us get legs and crap, oh well we had like tons more about, genes and DNA and RNA i dunno why we didn't learn much bout this -.-
ah well if evelution is true i guess god could have initiated that to?

i need to sleep more soon, i have been sleeping a maximum of 3-4 hours each night lately ...
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:24 pm

yeah if your classes are like the ones in Canada they pander to the religious crowd and water down the science, my teacher never once used the term evolution in my grade 12 biology class always just mutations and rarely mentioned natural selection. God could have guided evolution, i don't believe that because of the many failures in evolution(many times the number of species that are still around are extinct and mass extinction periods doesn't fit into my definition of an all-loving all-powerful god) and we can't see any definite direction.

anyway I'm not going to continue in the forum I don't want to come off as more of a preachy douche than i already have. Although if anybody is interested in learning more i suggest people like:
cdk007(slightly anti-religious, his early videos are all text)
AronRa(usually makes videos dealing with people responding to people and corrects their errors)
Andromeda's wake(astronomy)
DonExodus (Christian who believes in evolution)
c0nc0rdance
on Youtube they explain things much better than i ever could.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:36 pm

Everything is a Theory. . .
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krolin
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:44 pm

Whargoul wrote:
Everything is a Theory. . .
...huh? there is a difference between a scientific theory and the usual use of the word, it has to graduate from a hypothesis if you were implying the whole evolution is just a theory thing.

I know i said i wouldn't keep on this but I'm bored and their seems to be a lot of misconceptions about evolution.

1.I haven't seen this one here but i hear it repeatedly elsewhere evolution is not the same as atheism, theists, deists, pantheists, agnostics and atheists can all believe that evolution is true. Most people who believe in evolution believe in some kind of god.
2.Jorgen said this i responded quickly but would like to clarify- Mutations are not always bad and I've never understood the logic behind the statement. They are usually neutral many do not even change anything. Mutations occur when RNA codes base pair incorrectly thus changing the structure of an amino acid, when this happens usually the changes are small because multiple combination's can create the same amino acid and only one base pair was changed. for example a mutation could effect a section of DNA like this, TCA GTG ACG GAT TGC CAa CTT---> TCA GTG ACG GAT TGC CAg CTT, CAA might not form a different amino acid from CAG thus causing no change. More sever changes can occur called frame shift mutations where a nucleotide(one of the base pairs) is not just transcribed wrong but skipped completely (deleted) or a new nucleotide may be inserted(insertion) this effects all amino acids after the mutation and can create much longer chains but to go into much detail requires a lot more backround information on things like start and stop codons but one of these mutations (i think it was a deletion mutation) allowed bacteria to begin digesting nylon a beneficial mutation if there ever was one.
3.Haven't seen this one yet but it always rears it's ugly head Micro-Evolution occurs but not but not Macro-Evolution... this is like saying you can walk to the end of your street but given time and resources you still could not walk to the next down over... or the next state ect.
4.Probability which I stated before is the same thing as saying if things were different they would be different, if I threw a deck of cards onto the ground the probability of them landing in the exact position that they did is unimaginably low.
5. "Evolution is just a theory"... Scientific theories start as a hypothesis and undergo testing and are improved constantly and once it can explain everything better than any other proposed explanation and will be thrown out as soon as something that explains whatever better. Science is changing and self-correcting there is nothing wrong with that
6. "the big bang..." The big bang, abiogenesis, Star formation has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution begins after life begins and says nothing about how life formed.
7."why don't we see monkeys giving birth to human" this is expecting a miracle, if a monkey gave birth to a human that would be proof of some god figure but evolution doesn't work that way. Think of a bar that fades from black to white, we say that the black is one species and white another. Now the definition of species is " if two organisms can reproduce fertile off spring under natural circumstances they are the same species" organisms on either side of can not reproduce at all they are not the same species. Similarly at half the way mark either end can mate with that organism and produce infertile offspring so they are still not the same species but they are closely related. At 3/4 the way to white, black can not produce offspring while white produces fertile off spring so white and light grey are the same species. This causes confusion because if you go back just by a quarter of the way each time they could produce off spring with each other so the seem to be the same species but the black organism is a different species from the white organism. This happens because nature unlike the human brain does not put things into categories, Taxonomy is really just humans being humans trying to fit everything into a neat category which we do effectively because there is a slow transition. If the transition was quick we wouldn't be able to categorize things so easily( i get the feeling that's gonna confuse people but i suck at explaining things)

thats all for now
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:12 am

http://stupidevilbastard.com/Images2/sciencevsfaith.png

And something that I wanted to add to Krolin´s Mutations reply. Only a 3% of human DNA codes for proteins, meaning that only 3% makes humans be what they are. The other 97% of DNA is what we call "Junk DNA". We mainly dont know its function, that´s why we call it "Junk". The repeated nucletoide sequences that are performed by this Junk DNA are said to be without a purpose. I personally believe that it is evolutionary leftover. Anyways, any mutations that take place in this Junk DNA are said not to affect the human in any way.

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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:20 am

First of all i do believe in God. Second of all i have a question for the ones who dont. Where do you think you came from who do you think made you? Do you think that a stork brought you to your Mom and Dad. Or do you think you just fell from the sky.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:34 am

no aliens bring us here from another planet now we are theyr experiment
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:36 am

but krolin that is what i mean with negative (something that does shit just a mutation that don't do nothing) atleast i would think it would be negative to get a random mutation with no use....

a positive mutation though is something that is off use Smile

atleast that is how i think off it.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:21 pm

1. i gave an example of a positive mutation, there are many more observed positive mutations.
2. in biology they are considered neutral if the do not effect the chance of the organisms survival it really doesn't matter how you look at it, it is the the definition like a neutron is not negative because it isn't positive.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:43 pm

oh well
i still meant it that way but sure
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:24 pm

BLööööööö Im goin to a planet wheres only chicks witha big tits Very Happy so cya with your fucking mutants and neutrons you al lcan take them and but them in your a......
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:39 am

well i think u have alot of neutrons upp ur ass urself lol
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:00 am

jorgen wrote:
well i think u have alot of neutrons upp ur ass urself lol

lolololol indeed i do... doesn't everyone?
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:01 am

jupp XD
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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:56 pm

Hollow wrote:
First of all i do believe in God. Second of all i have a question for the ones who dont. Where do you think you came from who do you think made you? Do you think that a stork brought you to your Mom and Dad. Or do you think you just fell from the sky.

I believe that we evolved from extremely primitive forms of life. Evolution.

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PostSubject: Re: Do you believe in God?   Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:43 pm

Juani wrote:
Hollow wrote:
First of all i do believe in God. Second of all i have a question for the ones who dont. Where do you think you came from who do you think made you? Do you think that a stork brought you to your Mom and Dad. Or do you think you just fell from the sky.

I believe that we evolved from extremely primitive forms of life. Evolution.

I think his question was intended to be was what made the universe and how did it come into existence? Evolution theory of humans only tells what we came from, supposedly. There are many questions that haven't been answered by scientists. For example the Big Bang is still just a THEORY.

But what do I know my just a stupid Agnostic that lacks the intellect of the average atheist.
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